Constitutional argument for Single Payer Healthcare

[Butch Ragland]

Section 8

“The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;”

Collect taxes to pay debts for the “GeneralWelfare” (healthcare)and “Shall be uniform (universal) throughout the United States”. If healthcare fits Section 8 then we collect taxes and see to the “GeneralWelfare”.

HOW; the political process of course, duh! A new party or an offshoot of the Democratic party seems to me to be the best at this time. As it works out the Progressive Democrats of America (PDA) are willing to support and run candidates against Democrats who are not progressive. Or, by my definition if you put lobbyist money ahead of the “GeneralWelfare” then congress needs to be in another line of work.

Interesting that Section 8 flows directly from the Preamble;
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
What powerful words; “secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity”. Often we speak of remembering the troops who have died for our Liberty, 50 odd million people do not have proper, adequate healthcare is that a Blessing of Liberty?

[jmickel]

In America the fact is that everybody can get healthcare if they go to an emergency room attached to a hospital, by law they must receive it. The places where there are problems are in large cities where the indigent or extremely poor live in the same area and basically end up in the same emergency rooms...overcrowding. But the real problem is that they don't have anyone to guilde them through the rules that protect them.

For instance in L.A. if you call an ambulance it MUST take you to the nearest hospital with emergency "beds" open. Even IF it is Cedar Sinai. It you go there yourself though without insurance they will try to send you to "County".
The main hospital near the poor housing. I have personal experience with this system, and because I knew this, my guitarist friend's finger was saved. Most poor people would assume that an ambulance would just add to the bill.

Now in Bloomington, I took care of a man who was pretty much indigent all of his life. An alchoholic for 40 years and one night, we found him unconcious and took him to our Bloomington Hospital emergency room. He had nothing, and never had had anything. He had never paid anything into the tax system. But Bloomington Hosptial did every test under the sun, found extensive cancer and, in brief, sent him to the best oncologists for cure.

I volunteered to make sure he had shelter and a ride to his appointments. But if I hadn't there were public services here in Monroe County ready to do it instead. The BIG deal is that I could understand the applications and the hoops that he needed to jump. And I wasn't sick and had the strength to do it. What we really need are people to help the down and out fill out the 'bloody' applications and make the social security, et al, appointments!

ScarletPeriwinkle

[Butch Ragland]

And I wasn't sick and had the strength to do it. What we really need are people to help the down and out fill out the 'bloody' applications and make the social security, et al, appointments!

This and the emergency room question are huge cost that return poor results.

If I designed a system there would be something like clinics to see to this directing people to proper accurate inexpensive care. We ARE paying for the problem with a terrible inefficient system.

You did what you could with what you had where you were and I admire that. I offer we must figure out humane answers for where we ARE, if you like; find a Christian answer consistant with the "Sermon on the Mount".

You may find this amusing;
brwshow.com

[Butch Ragland]

We've entered this video for the healthcare ad contest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW_E7WrvvR0

[beau1943]

Video.........turn your speakers on

http://beauproductions.com/usworld/f....php?topic=286



Ray Interviews Alaska Ex-Governor Sarah Palin on the BRW Show.

http://beauproductions.com/usworld/f....php?topic=286

[theironchef]

I don't think your argument holds water. The preamble does not grant any power to the government to do anything. It's merely and introductory foreword.

The second reference to "general welfare" refers to the welfare of the state, not the welfare of "the people" or "the citizens."

Theironchef

[Butch Ragland]

The second reference to "general welfare" refers to the welfare of the state, not the welfare of "the people" or "the citizens."

Theironchef

I get so tired of people who can't think!

What do you think the state is other than the people or citizens, take the people out and what is left?

[theironchef]

Pehaps this is an honest mistake on your part, but you are equivocating. The constitution makes references to "the people", "all people" and "citizens." Take for example, Article one, section two in whch one of the requirements for president is being a US citizen. It clearly does not make sense to assume that "citizens" means all people. By the same token, it can not be argued that levying taxes and duties to maintain the necessary day-to-day operations and general welfare of the state is the same thing as providing providing healthcare for everyone. Welfare of the state does not equal welfare state.

[Butch Ragland]

it can not be argued that levying taxes and duties to maintain the necessary day-to-day operations and general welfare of the state is the same thing as providing providing healthcare for everyone CHEF

I AM saying the the citizens are the state, you are arguing they are not.
We do not have common ground to reach any agreement.

I argue that the government (state), must provide 3 basic things.

Food
Shelter
Security

Under Security comes physical safety, medical safety, etc. Without medical safety nothing else matters and since you are fairly young, healthy with a reasonable education (you have received the blessing of our system). Now, I offer you don't understand these last parts and how they play into the myths you argue.

Socialism; when I had a heart attack (60) without insurance because of a preexisting condition while riding in the ambulance sent by 911 I was wondering what I would do? 911 is a socialistic system that saved my life, paid for with OUR taxes. That limited socialism saved my life but not my home or my business or my buy food. I had worked from age 12 to 60 and lost everything except my life because because the "state" your word or the "government" my word did not see to my 3 basic needs.

Don't take me to task legalisticly proofing our Constitution as some Christians are want to do with the bible, read the Constitution for the spirit as one might do trying to understand "The Sermon on the Mount".

I'm calling you to a higher place!

[theironchef]

The purpose of government is to protect your personal liberties, maintain a national defense and ensure equal justice and tranquility for all. You are supposed to provide for your own food, shelter and use the second amendment to protect yourself.

The state does not exist to see to your personal needs, be it a new car or new gold teeth. The market place is where goods and services are provided; not through the government. Healthcare is both a good and a service.

Socialism is good until it's bad and then you're stuck with something that's expensive, inefficient and bankrupt. Take Medicare and Social Security for example. Why don't we fix these first?